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http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/HarryPotterbooks.html
This writing deal with Harry Potter books, last days apostasy, witchcraft, evil spirits deception and God's salvation in Jesus Christ.
In this writing are handled very serious issues. You who care about your neighbours, your kids, your parents, forward this writing as warning and as a message that they can be saved in Jesus Christ!
Man I hope you never read Dragonlance then. Surely won't like that one. We better just throw out Lord of the Rings too. And maybe The Giver. Forget about Chronicles of Narnia, too, that's just plain out of bounds. Eh, might as well just not read anything but the Bible - that's the safest route.
Man I hope you never read Dragonlance then. Surely won't like that one. We better just throw out Lord of the Rings too. And maybe The Giver. Forget about Chronicles of Narnia, too, that's just plain out of bounds. Eh, might as well just not read anything but the Bible - that's the safest route.
Are you saying there is no line?
I think you have to be very careful with this sort of a post . . . it can go too far one way or the other real quick. Remember that for the most part we are all brothers & sisters here, our in-fighting has done well for our enemy. Remember who our real adversary is when posting.
I know where you're trying to go Petri & Michael. The idea of writings that promote a child to turn to witchcraft for acceptance is on precarious grounds. On the other hand to try and burn all the books and keep it from existing doesn't really make us any better than the Pharisees & Sadducees of old. I personally do not care for the movies or books, never read them nor do I intend to. However my wife has as has my brother . . . I don't doubt their salvation nor do I think they are bound for hell or anything of this nature. If a person is swayed into witchcraft by a Harry Potter book then chances are they would have been swayed by Ender's Game or Edgar Allen Poe . . .
There are several hills in Theological discussion, not all of them are worth dieing on\for. Now I totally agree that Apostasy is rampant and a lot of things that Christ stated would occur are going on . . . just make sure that while you're doing a good job of being holy that you're not staying so far away that you can't make an impact.
I was being facetious. I'm sorry, it does not help : )
I have no problem with anyone reading Harry Potter. I think everyone can distinguish between fact and fiction, and there is absolutely nothing factual in Harry Potter that would corrupt anyone. Anyone who has given witchcraft a cursory look will understand that what is written in Harry Potter is silly nonsense. And I believe every Christian should learn about the real witchcraft that exists in our world so they know what they're REALLY facing, not what some anti-Harry Potter group will tell them about witchcraft as it correlates (or in this case does not) to HP.
I have no doubt of people's salvation in light of reading such books.
I should have verbalized better that my complaint is against this never ending onslaught against one certain book (in this case Harry Potter) when there are so many other books out there that everyone overlooks or are looked on without scorn. What makes Chronicles of Narnia so much better from a Christian perspective? Just because it was written by a Christian author? Yet who looks down on that book? Oh I'm sure there are some groups, but for the most part it's all against Harry Potter.
I should note that if a parent does not want their child to read these books, that is perfectly acceptable. But the rampant view that Harry Potter is somehow distasteful from a Christian perspective is, imho, very absurd. Disliking them for their lacking literary capacity is one thing, but ostracizing them for religious reasons is very different. It's like saying let's not read a Christian fiction novel because Satan is personified in it.
Having said all that, I'm open to the idea that my perception may be wrong. Silly thing, perception. : )
Last edited by michael (2008-10-28 14:39:42)
I was being facetious. I'm sorry, it does not help : )
I have no problem with anyone reading Harry Potter. I think everyone can distinguish between fact and fiction, and there is absolutely nothing factual in Harry Potter that would corrupt anyone. Anyone who has given witchcraft a cursory look will understand that what is written in Harry Potter is silly nonsense. And I believe every Christian should learn about the real witchcraft that exists in our world so they know what they're REALLY facing, not what some anti-Harry Potter group will tell them about witchcraft as it correlates (or in this case does not) to HP.
I have no doubt of people's salvation in light of reading such books.
I should have verbalized better that my complaint is against this never ending onslaught against one certain book (in this case Harry Potter) when there are so many other books out there that everyone overlooks or are looked on without scorn. What makes Chronicles of Narnia so much better from a Christian perspective? Just because it was written by a Christian author? Yet who looks down on that book? Oh I'm sure there are some groups, but for the most part it's all against Harry Potter.
Oh please do not take my post as a disagreement with you Michael, it was more a for-warning to others. I have seen what you speak of because people flame up the Harry Potter bookline. I think there is something to be said for how the subtle encroachment of sin has permeated our lives. It's little turns . . . just a few degrees to the right or left . . . left unchecked long enough you'll find yourself way off course. So while it's warrented that you have to look on certain writing with caution, to suggest that it's all together evil is taking it a bit far.
You're right about Harry Potter being the point of flaming attacks . . . what's sad is the evil that's been done in hate emails, threats, etc; far outweighs any evil that might be done by a Harry Potter book.
Here's a thought, read it with your child, discuss it . . . and make sure to point out the truth. If you make it evil though you almost are begging your kids to read it. Mine's only 4, but she's smarter than I ever was as a kid. I fully expect her to be coding by age 6, how cool would that be!!!
I'd agree that some of the reaction against HP makes those with more rational concerns get less hearing.
For instance, Harry participating in a child sacrifice... that's not something I would read with my kid, then to sit and talk about that. Even if the method in the book isn't out of Wicca For Dummies, I think that falls under the category of things we shouldn't expose ourselves to (much less our kids).
Sometimes I think the Christian cultures tolerance from HP is related to personal compromise. For instance, at my brothers Christian college, horror movies are THE big thing. None of the student's could even fathom that there might be something wrong with watching them, and more of them, and more of them. I'm seriously concerned for my generation, but mostly the generation right behind me, as Christians (ostensibly), for being in violation of Eph 5:
"Ephesians 5:11-12 1 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret."
Could a Christian have their mind (meditation) there and think they're not in "fellowship" with it, when they seek it over and again?
I'd agree that some of the reaction against HP makes those with more rational concerns get less hearing.
For instance, Harry participating in a child sacrifice... that's not something I would read with my kid, then to sit and talk about that. Even if the method in the book isn't out of Wicca For Dummies, I think that falls under the category of things we shouldn't expose ourselves to (much less our kids).
Sometimes I think the Christian cultures tolerance from HP is related to personal compromise. For instance, at my brothers Christian college, horror movies are THE big thing. None of the student's could even fathom that there might be something wrong with watching them, and more of them, and more of them. I'm seriously concerned for my generation, but mostly the generation right behind me, as Christians (ostensibly), for being in violation of Eph 5:
"Ephesians 5:11-12 1 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret."
Could a Christian have their mind (meditation) there and think they're not in "fellowship" with it, when they seek it over and again?
Good points you have in your post!
I'd agree that some of the reaction against HP makes those with more rational concerns get less hearing.
For instance, Harry participating in a child sacrifice... that's not something I would read with my kid, then to sit and talk about that. Even if the method in the book isn't out of Wicca For Dummies, I think that falls under the category of things we shouldn't expose ourselves to (much less our kids).
Sometimes I think the Christian cultures tolerance from HP is related to personal compromise. For instance, at my brothers Christian college, horror movies are THE big thing. None of the student's could even fathom that there might be something wrong with watching them, and more of them, and more of them. I'm seriously concerned for my generation, but mostly the generation right behind me, as Christians (ostensibly), for being in violation of Eph 5:
"Ephesians 5:11-12 1 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret."
Could a Christian have their mind (meditation) there and think they're not in "fellowship" with it, when they seek it over and again?
I agree with some of your points; this is why such discussion can be difficult to have in this medium. I would never expose my daughter to child sacrifice other than to educate her that there are cultures in the world that practice such and to point out where the Word speaks against such. I have come under great chastisement from several members of my family (not my wife mind you, and her opinion is the only I really concern myself with) because we are so guarded with what our daughter watches. All of the shows that we let her watch have a learning purpose in mind. Sponge Bob and the like are off the radar.
Child sacrifice itself is in the Old Testament; so you can't really avoid it. I'm not a fan of horror movies because I think they are retarded and serve no purpose. My point is that you should mind how you react because your reaction paints a picture of you; and if you're trying speak to those who need Christ then you have to be even more mindful.
Christ's word leaves no room for compromise. My point is that the Pharisees & Sadducees were so good at follow their law that they missed the Messiah walking among them. Their basis was to establish laws that would keep you from sinning. A law that one couldn't spit in the dirt on the Sabbath for fear that he'd make mud and making mud would be considered work and if you're working on the Sabbath then you're not keeping it holy. Come on! Really? My point is instead of chastising and demonizing people who read them; why not deal with the person in love and fellowship, like Christ would have? Obviously Christ would hold them to a standard; He never compromised on His Father's word.
Say you walk into a room of 5 people and they are all settled in reading Harry Potter, if you start accusing them of reading demonic works and blast them for their choices how many do you think will listen to you? Now what if in that same situation you sit down, start a conversation, and in that conversation mention that you never read the books and it's just not your 'thing'. Be relational with the people, shouting at someone that they are a sinner just gets you talking to a brick wall. Yes they are sinners, so are we . . . the difference is we know the grace by which we are sanctified. Did Christ when dining with the sinners lay into them calling everyone a 'brood of vipers'? No, that affectionate phrase was for the church leaders who had let the poor go hungry and the lepers suffer because they were so worried about becoming 'unclean' themselves.
I found this rather ironic/interesting given the discussion at hand: "Harry Potter fails to cast spell over Professor Richard Dawkins".
Professor Richard Dawkins plans to find out if stories like Harry Potter have a "pernicious" effect on children
The prominent atheist is stepping down from his post at Oxford University to write a book aimed at youngsters in which he will warn them against believing in "anti-scientific" fairytales.
Prof Hawkins said: "The book I write next year will be a children's book on how to think about the world, science thinking contrasted with mythical thinking.
"I haven't read Harry Potter, I have read Pullman who is the other leading children's author that one might mention and I love his books. I don't know what to think about magic and fairy tales."
Prof Dawkins said he wanted to look at the effects of "bringing children up to believe in spells and wizards".
"I think it is anti-scientific – whether that has a pernicious effect, I don't know," he told More4 News.
Last edited by opus (2008-10-29 10:04:32)
Child sacrifice itself is in the Old Testament; so you can't really avoid it.
Yeah but you know there is a difference between "they sacrificed their their children to the Baals..." and a narrative of needing a child, finding the child, and a blow-by-blow of the sacrifice including boiling it alive, and it being a needful thing. Surely you see a difference.
I think we nearly agree on this, in general.
Well it seems we're all generally on the same page here. But it should be noted that there is nothing sacrificial in nature in any of the Harry Potter books that I can recall. Much of what happens in those books is so distorted by the antagonists that nobody can validly cast judgment on them without actually reading them.
And I want to respectfully say that I'm not necessarily trying to take a side for Harry Potter, but I want the correct information to be known about the books. I'm rather disheartened by the shoddy research and claims that have gone into beating down the series because so much of what is written is half-truth or just plain wrong.
There's nothing wrong with disliking the series for the obvious occult resemblance since you can never remove wizardry from the occult even if it is vastly fictionalized and made into something corny. There is something wrong, on the other hand, with groups writing reviews and grossly misinterpreting a piece of literature and that which takes place in the narrative. It's like taking Biblical narrative out of context - it's generally annoying (to me anyway) and is unhelpful in debate and apologetics. It's exactly what many atheist groups do with Biblical narrative; now Christian groups play the same game and chunks of HP out of context and highly distort them.
But of course that's just one person's take on it. 
Last edited by michael (2008-10-29 14:51:39)
Through Harry Potter books kids are misled to believe that there exist good and bad witches. The Bible says that all kinds of sorcery and witchcraft is evil. Through Harry Potter books to kids had been given a good and positive picture from evil witchcraft. Sorcery and witchcraft is evilness and occultism, in which affects evil dark demon powers. Through these books they accept evil demons and their teachings. In Harry Potter books is a lie that there can be good witches. The Bible says that satan makes deception:
2 Cor 11:
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
satan transforms himself as angel of light. satan is also behind of this idea that there can be good witches. People of this world believe this deception. Christian parents must tell their kids and to the world that Harry Potter books are evil.
De 18:
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
Re 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Congregation of God is not sorcery and witchcraft, because they are sin and evil work of satan. Witchcraft and sorcery are slavery of sin and satan, which wage is eternal damnation. In congregation of God parents must have responsibility from their kids, and parents can't accept or assist their kids to sorcery and witchcraft. Christan homes must wipe out all Harry Potters books in their homes. This is very serious thing, because as we see from the Bible it says that God is against witches and evildoers and drive them out before Him. Question in Harry Potter books is not harmless and innocent fiction books, but demonic and satanic books.
From Harry Potter has made a hero, who fights with witch power in a side of good against evilness. But in fact Harry Potter's witch power is not good, but evil power. Harry Potter uses these things in the books:
- curses
- drunkenness
- lying
- dishonesty
- revenge
- drinking of the blood of death animal (giving power to them)
- human sacrifice
- contacts to dead ones are acceptable
Preceding things are good things in Harry Potter books, when " hero" acts in accordance with those things. Harry Potter is a hero to this and future generation and his action methods come as role models to young generations. Harry Potter's action methods are evil, not good. For example, contacting with dead ones is not contacted to dead ones, but demon spirits who imitate dead ones. Like these way children are used to contact demons. This is very horrendous, that children are used already as childhood to deal with demons.
Harry Potter's books role models and impulses rise from occultism and evil demon world. Through those things people minds goes broken and people let demon to control their life.
J.K. Rowling has said that she is a Christian. Why Christian who believe in God write books, which emphasize witchcraft and sorcery and occultism? I think that she thinks that she believes, but actually she doesn't believe as it has been written in the Bible. Because he/she who really believe to God and the Bible don't write a book saying that there is good and bad witches, because the Bible say that all witches are evil. J.K. Rowling says in her books that Harry's witchcraft is good and this one statement alone is enough to prove that Harry Potter books are evil. Of course there is also much more evil in those books.
So by that logic, Chronicles or Narnia, written by a *very* prominent and undeniably influential *Christian* author is also evil. So is The Lord of the Rings, by another *Christian* author.
Why drill it down to one specific book and not analyze the big picture?
So by that logic, Chronicles or Narnia, written by a *very* prominent and undeniably influential *Christian* author is also evil. So is The Lord of the Rings, by another *Christian* author.
Why drill it down to one specific book and not analyze the big picture?
All books which promote witchcraft and don't say that it is evil are evil books. There is no matter is author Christian or not, if he/she writes such books. The Bible says that all witchcraft and sorcery are evil, and so we have to believe as Christians.
Touche
I beleive that we as *CHRIST*ians; those of us who have put on *CHRIST* by beleiving, repenting- (definition-to turn back from-away from our former lusts-sins) confessing and being baptised into *CHRIST* (*HIS* body-the church) have to understand that we are in a world that has wheat and tares! We know that the wheat are those who are saved-(have been obedient to the gospel of *CHRIST*) and of course the tares are the children of the wicked one! Listen to what Paul said by inspiration of the *HOLY* *GHOST* in Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. We must understand that Satan uses the devices at his disposal to corrupt us if we let him! My child was made to read the Divinchi code in the fourth grade; beleive it or not! I was outraged; needless to say that he no longer attends a public school anymore! I'm glad to say that he is now in a *CHRIST*ian based private school! The things that are ofensive to *GOD* should also offend those who are of *GOD*! Hollywood is a dangerous place and is brain washing our youth as well as some of us! Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Remember what the scripture says in Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. *JESUS* warned of false teachers and false prophets and even Paul said in Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. I beleive that if we cannot picture *JESUS* watching these movies or reading these books or any of *HIS* Apostles doing so that we beter beware also! Theres a better day coming for those who are found waiting in the *LORD*! Be careful!
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To Live is *CHRIST*; to die is gain!