Topic: Ruby Criticisims?

I'm on the verge of developing a web site + web app integration and my associate brought up these considerations:

http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/200 … o_p_1.html

Do any of you who are multi-lingual coders have comments on this? I'm still open to PHP but I'm leaning very strongly toward Rails. But this is about my last chance before I commit.

"Bear 270, young man. Bear two, seven, zero, over." - Musings of a flight simulator guru, me.

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

some sound arguments, but I'd like to hear from ryenski and robert about what they think before you go either way.

[witty scriptorial reference here]

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

One thing I noticed if you go down to a comment by "wellwisher", he claims to have seen the nightmare project himself and gives his commentary on why it initially failed.

"Bear 270, young man. Bear two, seven, zero, over." - Musings of a flight simulator guru, me.

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

Here are my thoughts from the (slightly) different point of view from a blog: http://www.bluejazzconsulting.com/2007/ … -on-rails/

Basically, I enjoy Ruby because I like the language itself more than PHP. Having spent the last 11 years doing Java, it is refreshing to find a language that fits the way I think and like to work.

Use whichever one you want based on what makes you happy and works for you and your team the best. Whatever you select, commit to it fully to better understand how the language works, rather than relying on blogs and code snippets to get you by and you'll do fine.

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

I don't know much about the CDBaby project itself or about Derek's experiences with Rails/PHP. What I will say is that Rails, CakePHP, Code Ignitor, ErlyWeb, Prototype or any other framework are not silver bullets. They are tools for solving problems and not every tool can solve every problem on its own. Sometimes you have to use straight JavaScript instead of Prototype. Sometimes you have to drop to C instead of Ruby.

From what little I know about the CDBaby rewrite, they were trying to force Rails to do things it was not created to do and were frustrated that it wouldn't. It sounds like there were more issues than that as well.

My advice, choose the language you are most comfortable programming with. For me, it's Ruby, perhaps for you it is PHP or Java. Programming languages are just tools, not solutions. You as a developer should choose the best tool to solve the problem - whether it is what you are most comfortable with or what your environment will allow.

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

In my opinion, that article was poorly written, because it made some pretty sweeping statements without giving much detail about how or why. Unfortunately, it spread around a lot of FUD, and rankled people into a language war.

Like Robert said, you should use a framework that you're comfortable with. I think a lot of people aren't prepared for how much actual _programming_ is involved in developing a Rails application. With PHP, you can actually just make a plain HTML web page, and sprinkle in some PHP code. Not so with Rails - you really have to be prepared to write some code.

A good article:
http://hackd.wordpress.com/2007/10/14/z … ur-months/

If you want to get a visual idea of how Rails works, check out RailsCasts free screencasts:
http://railscasts.com/episodes/75

Also, Peepcodes are great (not free, but worth paying for)
http://peepcode.com/

Ryan Heneise  |  Art of Mission  |  Now with extra-strong Donor Tools mojo

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

Also, just because one project switched from Rails to PHP doesn't mean there's something wrong with Rails. Look at how many new Rails projects there have been in the past year. Ultimately, most of the points in that article come down come down to business decisions rather than shortcomings of the framework.

Ryan Heneise  |  Art of Mission  |  Now with extra-strong Donor Tools mojo

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

Yeah, this has been really controversial. Anti-Rails folk use this as ammunition in their holy war of languages. It really is silly.

What it really boils down to is that Derek was way more skilled in PHP than Ruby. His mind is tied to the language so trying to do the same thing in Rails probably seemed counter-intuitive.

One thing worth noting is that he admits becoming a better programmer after working with Rails.

Moral of the story: Choose the language and framework that best fits your brain. If you come from a C background and enjoy lots of curly braces, then PHP is for you. If you think in more object-oriented language, then Ruby really is the bomb.

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

Great article James!

Ryan Heneise  |  Art of Mission  |  Now with extra-strong Donor Tools mojo

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

Yes, thanks for the article. I looks like it will be helpful.

Not being the expert the overall impression I have gotten from my friends here on Godbit and other research is: Ultimately it's about what you work well with, but there is something to be said about emerging technologies that learn from the mistakes of it's forerunners.

At this point it looks like my own "venture" projects will be in Rails and for the time being all client projects will be in PHP. Maybe sometime next year I can start getting Rails behind my client's sites.

"Bear 270, young man. Bear two, seven, zero, over." - Musings of a flight simulator guru, me.

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

You might look into Radiant (http://radiantcms.org/), which I use for a lot of my "static" client sites.

Ryan Heneise  |  Art of Mission  |  Now with extra-strong Donor Tools mojo

Re: Ruby Criticisims?

ryenski wrote:

You might look into Radiant (http://radiantcms.org/), which I use for a lot of my "static" client sites.

LOL... yeah, I was introduced to Radiant when John (the guy who started Radiant) pulled me into one of his projects that was in Radiant. I'm building the next version of Pier 2 Design in it now. I like it, I just wish I knew Ruby enough to extend it.

Last edited by Leovenous (2007-10-20 12:59:12)

"Bear 270, young man. Bear two, seven, zero, over." - Musings of a flight simulator guru, me.