Topic: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

I am a full time pastor looking to supliment my income helping a few other churches design and maintain a low budget website. I don't do the cutting edge stuff. But I can make HTML look and work pretty good. I have a good eye for design and layout. Check out our church website which I designed, built, and maintain.

http://www.oasischristianchurch.org/

You can contact me at the following address:

office@oasischristianchurch.org

Tim

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

Tim: I don't want to be mean, but Oasis isn't the level of code quality that we advocate at Godbit. See this article...

http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/

That being said, we'd be happy to help teach best practices, commonly referred to as Web Standards...

http://webstandards.org/

This is a good article on the benefits of learning and using Web Standards...

http://codylindley.com/Webdev/173/web-s … akeholders

This would be a good book, to learn how to make sites without (mis)using tons of tables...

http://www.sitepoint.com/books/html1/

Beyond that, some higher-level books which are must-haves for web developers are...

http://htmlmastery.com/

http://cssmastery.com/

Give me liturgy or give me death.

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

Nathan Smith wrote:

Tim: I don't want to be mean, but Oasis isn't the level of code quality that we advocate at Godbit. See this article...

no offense intended, but roger that. Correct me if I'm wrong gang, but we all started off as n00bs; unfortunately the good ol' days when that was enough to make money doing this are almost gone and fading fast. Personally I can vouch that, if someone is serious about growing their skillz and learning about this game for real, Godbit is probably among the best places on Earth to go.

-Rhino

Lord, give us the wisdom to utter words that are gentle and tender, for tomorrow we may have to eat them.   -Rep. Morris Udall

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

Yes, allow me to add my encouragement, as we all learn together.

Nathan wrote:

This would be a good book, to learn how to make sites without (mis)using tons of tables...
http://www.sitepoint.com/books/html1/

Beyond that, some higher-level books which are must-haves for web developers are...
http://htmlmastery.com/
http://cssmastery.com/

And a second endorsement for these books, especially "Build Your Own Web Site The Right Way Using HTML & CSS"

Looking forward to your future designs...

"I was blind, but now I see!"  John 9:25

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

i've never heard of "maiandra gd" font...

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

By the way, this has been mentioned elsewhere, but the news bears repeating:

Westciv has some awesome courses available online for free: http://www.westciv.com/courses/free/

I understand a new course will be available (and one will become unavailable) each week.
I'm planning to read all of them.

Go. They're that good.

"I was blind, but now I see!"  John 9:25

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

richards wrote:

i've never heard of "maiandra gd" font...

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/galapagos/maiandra/gd/

Ninjas and pirates both agree: cowboys suck.

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

OK, Guys,

I appreciate the constructive criticism and information. I took a crash course in basic CSS using the links you provided, and have updated the front page of my site. Please take another look. I cut the tables to a minimum, and cleaned up all the bad code.

Tim

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

it validates! nice job Tim. That code looks quite a bit cleaner, though it's still table-based. I checked the main page plus a random sample of interior pages, they all validate (I didn't check every one though). IMHO you are definitely moving in the right direction.

what do you guys think?

-Rhino

Lord, give us the wisdom to utter words that are gentle and tender, for tomorrow we may have to eat them.   -Rep. Morris Udall

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

Rhino,

All the pages validate. I ran them all through W3C's parser and fixed all of the problems. But, I only cleaned up the index page so far of several  unnecessary tables, using CSS instead. Yes, it is still tables based. But I am not ready yet to make the jump to full CSS scripting.

The problems have come in since I started using Netscape Composer 7.2. I used to write all the HTML by hand, but that gets a bit tedious. I went back to doing it by hand. Netscape Composer leaves way too much debris behind.

Tim

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

Pastor Tim wrote:

Yes, it is still tables based. But I am not ready yet to make the jump to full CSS scripting. Tim

I fully understand, that can be a daunting task. I must say that what you have done already is impressive IMHO for someone who hasn't used CSS before - especially getting everything to validate. that's not an easy job.

Pastor Tim wrote:

I used to write all the HTML by hand, but that gets a bit tedious. I went back to doing it by hand. Netscape Composer leaves way too much debris behind.

I think you will find that this happens with any type of WYSIWYG editor. To each his own, but to me there is no substitute for hand-coding (x)html. It does get tedious, but there is just no other way to be sure it's right. However, by using a valid semantic layout it becomes MUCH easier because so much of the site becomes standardized.

Anyway, I think you are on the right track now. Congratulations on having an open mind and not taking our criticisms personally.

cheers!
-Rhino

Lord, give us the wisdom to utter words that are gentle and tender, for tomorrow we may have to eat them.   -Rep. Morris Udall

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

Hey Tim, great job on moving towards a more CSS based layout. A couple of suggestions for you when you get to the point of removing "styles" from your markup:

Anything in the style attributes would be better placed within a CSS file. This will save you a lot of time in the long run because it makes it much easier to update, maintain and reuse. If you can get way with writing styles once and assigning it to a class, you will save yourself a lot of time.

Your pages validate, but keep in mind that this is because you are using HTML Transitional. If you were to switch this to HTML Strict, your pages would not validate. One example is that you are using a horizontal border (<hr>) and are not closing the element (<hr />) All elements should be closed, whether you are doing (<div>...</div>) or (<br />) - notice the /.

One of the biggest things to keep in mind about the separation of HTML and CSS is asking yourself what is content and what is style. It is possible to have an image as part of your content and also have another image that is there as part of your design. Anything that is content related should be in your markup (HTML) and anything style related should be in your CSS.

One more thing, when you are doing your styling make sure to put in your measurements. An example would be that you have padding: 5; You should put padding: 5px;.

I know you aren't quite ready for a tableless layout yet, but as you are making the change keep in mind that tables are not bad, they just aren't meant for layouts/styling, but rather tabular data. Also, tables have a few more elements such as thead, th, and tfoot. You can also use caption if you wanted. Here is an article that I think is a good one on tables - http://24ways.org/2005/tables-with-style

Ultimately, tableless designs will make your life much easier when you need to update and maintain your site. It will also allow people who are blind better access to your site.

Hope those suggestions help and keep up the good work.

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

Robert Evans wrote:

Your pages validate, but keep in mind that this is because you are using HTML Transitional. If you were to switch this to HTML Strict, your pages would not validate. One example is that you are using a horizontal border (<hr>) and are not closing the element (<hr />) All elements should be closed, whether you are doing (<div>...</div>) or (<br />) - notice the /.

Robert: Actually, that's not a difference between HTML 4.01 Transitional and HTML 4.01 Strict, it's a difference between HTML and XHTML. None of the versions of HTML require all elements to be closed, that's XHTML only.

Give me liturgy or give me death.

Re: Need a low budget church or ministry website? I can help

Whoops, nice catch! I actually know that, but apparently I wasn't proof reading what I wrote.